Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Some suggestions to improve material converter (from Vray)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Some suggestions to improve material converter (from Vray)

    Greetings Karba,

    First of all, thank you for getting continuosly feedback from us and for this great renderer, wich I am loving a little more every day.

    I am going to point some things about Vray conversion that could be improved to begin one of the best (or the best) Vray converter on a GPU renderer. Achieving it could mean to attract many Vray users, which is one of the most extended renderers and a lot of users are searching for faster speeds. As me, other Vray users who are not very experienced on rendering or are a little lazy (laugh), probably are searching for a fast way to set a scene with their Vray objects they already have, and, when done, convert it to FStorm and render it in a simple, direct way (almost as using Vray RT, but using FStorm, which is much more better). After that, some of us will be investigating a little how to directly work with FStorm, but probably slowly. Summarizing: improving the converter even a little more will mean, for sure, a lot of more users/money for you from Vray "movers" choosing FStorm instead of other GPU renderers.

    So I am writing you some improvements that could be added, if possible (ordered from more useful to less useful, from my point of view):


    1 - Light conversion changes their power relations and shadows change a lot. I have done some tries and my conclusion (probably it can be done more accurately) is that, when converted, the Vray Sun must multiply its power value x10, so a Vray Sun with an intensity multipier value of "0,1" should become a FStorm Sun with power value "1", and Vray Light (Planes) should divide its power by 10, for example, one Vray Light with a value of "50" should be converted into FStorm Light with value "5". So, Sun multiplies x10 and Lights divide by 10. It gives a much more equilibrated result on my different tries.

    2 - Glass conversion is not correct in some cases (look at attached screenshots).

    3 - Vray displacement is not converted.

    4 - Do you think it will be possible to convert Vray fur to FStorm fur (when implemented first)?

    5 - After/during conversion would be great to receive a pop-up message if some materials weren't converted, also with a button to select them (the materials) or the objects using those certain materials. (In this case you can see a good example implemented on Corona renderer demo version).

    6 - When converted, materials turn on white, grey or black plain colors on the viewport, instead of showing their textures, as Vray.

    7 - A planar Vray Light marked as "Skylight portal" would be better to be converted into a FStorm Light with "visible" field disabled, instead of enabled.


    Every sentence should include at the end: "Do you think you will be able to add it at any moment, or does it sound as an impossible thing?



    Hope this is useful for you! (and for me too, of course).


    Best regards
    "black" glass on FStorm vray
    EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

  • #2
    1) Can't do anything about light power at the moment. FStorm and VRay have different power scales.
    2) Could you send me glass objects with materials before conversion? info|@fstormrender.com
    3) Do you use VRayDisplacement modifier?
    4) I am not going to implement fstorm fur the same way as Vray.
    5) I will add something
    6) I will fix it
    7) I can add portal option to fstorm light

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Karba View Post
      1) Can't do anything about light power at the moment. FStorm and VRay have different power scales.
      2) Could you send me glass objects with materials before conversion? info|@fstormrender.com
      3) Do you use VRayDisplacement modifier?
      4) I am not going to implement fstorm fur the same way as Vray.
      5) I will add something
      6) I will fix it
      7) I can add portal option to fstorm light
      Thank you Karba! Great news

      1. Yeah, I have oberved it. But even having different scales that "mathematic" relation had a better result, if you could apply it when converting. It's a "simple" multiplication and division based on the detected Vray value. Ie: Vray sun value read: 1,5 -> FStorm sun value applied: 1,5x10=15
      2. I have sent you an email.
      3. Both of them (VRayDisplacement or displacement map sometimes), but no one seems to be converted. They are plain after conversion.
      4. Ok no problem. But then, please, another message or something telling us "Vray fur is not converted, inspect it manually. These are the objects which had Vray fur applied: ....", like in point number 5
      5. Great,
      6. Great again,
      7. And great!


      Thanks!
      EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

      Comment


      • #4
        I got the scene. Glass conversion works properly. You have to increase max depth in render settings to make the glass brighter.

        Comment


        • #5
          That's true, I have used 20 for depth and it works as showed. However, there are other materials which are not correctly converted; I have marked them in the attached image. Probably most of them will be fixed when fixed only one, because some are the same.
          I think converting also the base color of materials can be useful.

          In addition, there is a specific object of which materials are not converted nor the texture maps. It's the orange, also attached comparison (I sent you the object and its texture maps).

          Thank you!
          EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

          Comment


          • #6
            Could you please make sure all textures exist?
            I think VRay renders missed textures as white and FStorm renders it as black.

            Comment


            • #7
              Falloff conversion on the pillows seems wrong.
              FStorm 1.3.0d I Max 2018 I Win7 I i7 5930k I 64GB I 3 x 1080Ti

              Comment


              • Miguel1900
                Miguel1900 commented
                Editing a comment
                It could be improved too, right. Thanks for pointing it.

            • #8
              That scene was with texture maps deleted, yes. I have tried now with all textures and some objects are correct now, but most of them don't. Attached image is with all textures applied, in Vray and FStorm.

              I think they are PNG textures with transparency. Even seem to be applied and linked on the FStorm material, but it doesn't render them.
              Last edited by Miguel1900; 11-06-2016, 07:00 PM.
              EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

              Comment


              • #9
                Could you send me VRay version of the scene with all textures?

                Comment


                • Miguel1900
                  Miguel1900 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You have an email. Thank you

              • #10
                I checked the scene.

                1) In most cases you use VRayBlend with Additive mode. It is incorrect in terms of physics. FStorm doesn't support it.
                2) VRayFastSSS2 is very messy. I was not able to find a way to convert it properly.
                3) Vray fog color is not converted at the moment. I will fix it.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by Karba View Post
                  I checked the scene.

                  1) In most cases you use VRayBlend with Additive mode. It is incorrect in terms of physics. FStorm doesn't support it.
                  2) VRayFastSSS2 is very messy. I was not able to find a way to convert it properly.
                  3) Vray fog color is not converted at the moment. I will fix it.
                  Oh I see, thank you Karba.

                  1) And what about converting Additive mode materials as if them would have disabled that option? Or at least taking the texture bitmaps with general parameters. It won't be exactly the same but it would be better than simply black
                  2) The same about VrayFastSSS2 -> what do you think about taking the textures at least? It won't have the same reflections, etc, but it will have the textures, which visually is the 90% of the material appearance.

                  But anyway add both cases to the (future) warning message we were talking about, please! telling something like "Remember that "X" Vray materials are not fully supported. We advise you to revise them manually. These are the affected materials: ...(a list)"

                  4) Oh, did you also check the right bottom vase of the image? It should look like glass. It's a blend material with two Vraymtl.



                  5) PS: I have attached a comparison of the lights conversion I told you. As you can see, if you could multiply the Vray Sun value x10 and divide the planes Vray lights /10, it would be much more accurate. (I have tried it in other scenes with different values and the same mathematical adjustment works better too).



                  As always, thanks again for listening and helping!
                  Last edited by Miguel1900; 11-08-2016, 01:31 AM.
                  EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Miguel1900 View Post

                    Oh I see, thank you Karba.

                    1) And what about converting Additive mode materials as if them would have disabled that option? Or at least taking the texture bitmaps with general parameters. It won't be exactly the same but it would be better than simply black
                    2) The same about VrayFastSSS2 -> what do you think about taking the textures at least? It won't have the same reflections, etc, but it will have the textures, which visually is the 90% of the material appearance.

                    But anyway add both cases to the (future) warning message we were talking about, please! telling something like "Remember that "X" Vray materials are not fully supported. We advise you to revise them manually. These are the affected materials: ...(a list)"

                    4) Oh, did you also check the right bottom vase of the image? It should look like glass. It's a blend material with two Vraymtl.



                    5) PS: I have attached a comparison of the lights conversion I told you. As you can see, if you could multiply the Vray Sun value x10 and divide the planes Vray lights /10, it would be much more accurate. (I have tried it in other scenes with different values and the same mathematical adjustment works better too).



                    As always, thanks again for listening and helping!


                    1) It converts as Additive mode is off. It just looks differently
                    2) VRaySSS2 has huge amount of textures slots. FStorm material doesn't have that many.

                    The vase uses blend material with Additive mode.
                    There is no way to make proper light power conversion at the moment. I will implement power conversion in the future.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Thanks Karba. I see it now.

                      But a little more thing about the vase. You are right, it had additive enabled, however it doesn't seem to convert it as if additive is off. I have attached 3 tries: The first one if Vray with additive ON, the second with additive OFF (almost the same), and the third is FStorm converted even DISABLING before the Additive manually, and it still looks very different.

                      Do you think could you adjust it better? Of course it's only a vase, sorry, but it will serve to solve reported problems on the future by other users, for sure.


                      Oh, off-topic: Could be possible to have the RT "lock-viewport" button enabled by default?


                      Thank you!
                      EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Miguel1900 View Post
                        Oh, off-topic: Could be possible to have the RT "lock-viewport" button enabled by default?
                        It would be preferable that it just memorizes the last state.
                        Software: FStormRender: 1.5.0h | Drivers NV: 456.71 | 3dsMax: 2020.3 | Windows: 10 x64
                        Hardware: Gpu: GTX1080 Phoenix GLH | Cpu: i7-2600k@4.5GHz | Ram: 16GB | SSD: Samsung 860 Pro

                        Comment


                        • Miguel1900
                          Miguel1900 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Even better, yes. But maybe a little more difficult to develop. Thanks for adding!

                      • #15
                        Hi again Karba,

                        I have been doing several tests with free scenes, so all of you can download them, and I bring you some more little improvements to become the best converter I would have see until now.

                        (At left, Vray; at right, FStorm)



                        - Water conversion (waves, noise).
                        - And maybe floor improvement.

                        Download page: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...2-514ed29053f9



                        - Mirrors behind the bed.
                        - Backgound exterior image is opaque, so Light placed behing it can't enter on the room, as in Vray does.
                        - Glasses and silver objects on the bed. They seem to be singles "VRayMtl".

                        Download page: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...droom-interior



                        - Very different colors:

                        Download page: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...ior-young-room



                        - Strange behaviour on camera conversion. Is like it has applied a lot of zoom to the camera by an unknown reason.

                        Download page: https://www.cgtrader.com/free-3d-mod...-lobby/lobby-f



                        And the vase of my last post before this one, if you didn't see it, and the textile I sent to your email.




                        Of course not to be done today, nor tomorrow, but to be added to your pending list, if you consider it.

                        Oh, please, keep this thread updated if there are any news about this things, please.


                        Thank you!
                        Last edited by Miguel1900; 11-11-2016, 03:00 PM.
                        EVGA GTX 1060 SC 6GB GDDR5 @ 2151MHz || i7 3770 @ 3,7GHz || G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB @ 1600mhz

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X